Brake setup for your S15

[kazama]

Hey guys,

I opened this thread so that everyone can contribute in what you've upgraded and what are you feedbacks and whether they're worth it or not.

I'll have a go first.

First upgrade

Front : Stock 4 pot calipers with Endless SSS pads
Rear : Upgraded to 2 pot calipers from a R33 GTSt with stock pads
Price : Endless SSS pads - RM 500, R33 GTSt brakes - RM 400

Result : These pads are okay for normal driving, but when you start pushing your car and braking slightly harder than usual they tend to fade, these pads are a disappointment considering its the 2nd model in the range, higher than the VN9500, a 0-500degree pad and its ENDLESS.


Second upgrade

Front : Stock 4 pot with std slotted discs and RaceBrakes RB74 pads
Rear : R33 2pot with std slotted discs and RaceBrakes RB74
Price : RaceBrakes RB74 pads front and rear - RM 1200

Result : These are 0-650 degree pads and I've used them before on my previous Skyline R33. They work tremendously. For the price, they're really value for money. Even after mountain climbing. Driving really hard and braking late, These pads didn't fade on me. They're really good. The only drawback is that its dusty but hey ! as long as it does the job.


Third upgrade

Front : Stock 4 pot with newer std slotted discs and Endless CCR pads
Rear : R33 2pot with std slotted discs and RaceBrakes RB74 pads
Price : Endless CCR pads - RM 800 (front only)

Result : I had to change the pads cause the previous pads were finished. So I couldn't get them cause I wasn't going to Australia anytime soon so I thought I'd try the Endless CCR. The working temperature of these pads are supposedly 150-800degrees. There's even a disclaimer in the box. Do not use racing pads on public roads. Haha.

In the mornings, it does take a while for them to warm up, but not too long. I'd say its still acceptable to be used for normal driving. Unless you're the type that straight away drives crazily just after starting your car. The performance of these pads are very good. I can say that they're slighly better than the RB74 but not by much. These are also a bit dusty and can be noisy sometimes. Under heavy braking these didn't fade on me at all.

Conclusion : I would recommend the RaceBrakes RB74 and the Endless CCR to anyone that wants more bite in their braking and that it will last during track days/hard driving.


Fourth upgrade

coming soon, very soon.



Guys,
please list down what you've upgraded and how did it fair to you so that other members could use this thread as a reference before upgrading their brakes setup.

Thanks and take care everyone.

 

[Nicely]

I'm currently running 345mm AMG discs and R32GTR calipers with EBC Yellow Stuff pads on the front, Z32 rear brakes with EBC Red Stuff pads and a Z32 BMC. Braided lines all round and DOT5.1 fluid. Braking is well balanced and phenomenal. The Yellow Stuff pads need a little initial warming. All that means is you need to push your foot slightly harder for the first couple of brakes

 

[sillbeers15]

I have installed the following items to improve braking efficiency:

1. Cusco brake stopper (cheap and effective).

2. AP Racing big 4 pot caliper w. Ferado pads for front.

3. AP 330mm dia. slotted disc w. floating alu hub (increase dia. by 50mm) for front.

4. Steel braided hoses for front

5. Z32 2 pot caliper w. stock pads.

6. Z32 300mm stock disc (increase dia. by 50mm).

7. Z32 internal drum brake mechanism (complete set) + dust shield plate for handbrake purposes at rear.

8. PDM steel braided lines for S15 brake steel rigid hoses to Z32 rear calipers.

9. GT-1 Engineering handbrake cables for s15 handbrake lever to Z32's rear drum handbrake mechanism.

10. Renew S15 masterbrake cylinder.

11. Nismo strengthened brake and clutch pedal housing.

12. Nismo air darts to cool front brakes (waiting for shipment to arrive).

Brakes are sensitive and good feel for hard driving of 282kw @ rearwheels compared to stock brakes.

 

[Yakozan]

Stock brake setup with ferodo DS2500 pads and braided lines.

works pretty well. I could easily get my ABS to engage even after 30 hard minutes on track.

The pads needs to get warm though and they are dusty as feck.

 

[Dazz0i]

GTR brembo's on the front, with DS2500's atm... stop incredibly well..... managed to shock a few of my mates with just how well they do stop.

they're running standard GTR discs, 324mm.

i've got the rear brembo's waiting to go on, just waiting for slightly better weather!

I agree with Yak' that the DS's are VERY dusty... not good for white wheels like mine!

Running braided front lines too.

Need to get a Z32 BMC and R33 handbrake cables for mine before fitting the rears. The fronts were a straight bolt on... just needed to get some 45mm M12 set-screws to fit the calipers on, because the skyline ones don't fit!

 

[channie]

R33 GTR brembos all round with GTR stock discs and GTR BMC...

Project Mu HC pads all round (Only because they came with the calipers!) And project Mu sports inner shoes for the hand brake, drfit works braided lines, Halfords dot 5 high performance brake fluid.
ABS still in!!!

Gunna get the cusco brake stopper next...

 

[Topper]

R33 4-pot Brembo's on the front with DS2500 pads, 324mm DBA slotted discs and braided hoses.

Stock rears, untill i get round to fitting the R33 2-pot rears with stock R33 discs, DS2500 pads and braided hoses

Also have Z32 BMC to fit.

Here's a pic of the fronts fitted: -

 

[gunner93]

Tops,

How did you get those wheel centre cap with S emblem?

 

[mint]

Yeah that look smart toppers!

Good idea for a thread folks as its something iv been thinking about but again.. not real idea on what to go for, i want some endless calipers tho so going by the looks of this thread 4 pot's for the front.

 

[ichi-go]

6 pot is abit overkill for an s15 with only 1260kg. 6pot is more for the heavy weights such as z33 or gtr.

Putting a big 6pot can actually slow you down because it's heavier than a 4pot and more friction from the larger pads.

 

[kazama]

6 pot is abit overkill for an s15 with only 1260kg. 6pot is more for the heavy weights such as z33 or gtr.

Putting a big 6pot can actually slow you down because it's heavier than a 4pot and more friction from the larger pads.

Thats true, thats why I'm a little confused, some Jap track cars uses 6pot front and 4pot rear but there are some that use BCNR33/BNR34 brakes front and rear.

Yashio Factory's drift S15 - Endless 6 pot and std s15 rear brakes.
Taniguchi's S15 - project mu 6 pot. and project mu 2 pot rear on his street car.
Wise Square's S15 drift car - Grex 4pot front, ECR33 2pot rear.
Moon Face Racing S15 track car - front - Endless 6 pot, ECR33 2 pot rear.
Trial's S15 - front - Brembo F50 4 pot, and ECR33 2pot rear.
Maruta-Goya's track S15 - front - Brembo 4 pot (BNR34), std ER34 2 pot rear.
SunLine Racing track S15 - front - Endless 6 pot, ECR33 2 pot rear.
Out Trash S15 - front - Alcon 4 pot, ECR33 2 pot rear.
OK Racing S15 - front Brembo 4 pot, Brembo 2pot rear (both from a BCNR33).


Guys, as you can see, I have a disease, I have a BRAKE FETISH

Actually I don't really care whether its overkill to put 6pots on the front and 4 pots on the rear of an S15 because I love big brakes, I really do. Since last time I had this weird fetish. haha. And if you guys go to Singapore, majority of people with performance Jap cars have had big brake kit upgrades, when I was there, I didn't see an Evo with stock brakes. NONE !

I even saw ST power's track car with Brembo Monoblock racing 6 or 8 pots (can't remember). And most of their customer's car carry AP Racing 6/4 setups. I was quite shy of my s15 at that time because everywhere I looked I can see BBK everywhere in Singapore. Must be cheap for them. haha. Whereas in Malaysia, ppl are only starting to play BBK. I for one, am one of them after saving money. It's quite expensive for us, with our low ringgit.

And also, If I had 6pot front and 4 pot rear, maybe just maybe I could've have braked in time the other day to avoid a small mishap.

Guys, thanks to those that have contributed to this thread and for those that haven't please do so by updating this thread with your brake setups as it will be good for people wanting to upgrade their brakes and this will make a good reference for them instead of each one of them starting a new thread everytime they need to change pads/rotors

Cheers fellas.

 

[sillbeers15]

Thats true, thats why I'm a little confused, some Jap track cars uses 6pot front and 4pot rear but there are some that use BCNR33/BNR34 brakes front and rear.

Yashio Factory's drift S15 - Endless 6 pot and std s15 rear brakes.
Taniguchi's S15 - project mu 6 pot. and project mu 2 pot rear on his street car.
Wise Square's S15 drift car - Grex 4pot front, ECR33 2pot rear.
Moon Face Racing S15 track car - front - Endless 6 pot, ECR33 2 pot rear.
Trial's S15 - front - Brembo F50 4 pot, and ECR33 2pot rear.
Maruta-Goya's track S15 - front - Brembo 4 pot (BNR34), std ER34 2 pot rear.
SunLine Racing track S15 - front - Endless 6 pot, ECR33 2 pot rear.
Out Trash S15 - front - Alcon 4 pot, ECR33 2 pot rear.
OK Racing S15 - front Brembo 4 pot, Brembo 2pot rear (both from a BCNR33).


Guys, as you can see, I have a disease, I have a BRAKE FETISH

Actually I don't really care whether its overkill to put 6pots on the front and 4 pots on the rear of an S15 because I love big brakes, I really do. Since last time I had this weird fetish. haha. And if you guys go to Singapore, majority of people with performance Jap cars have had big brake kit upgrades, when I was there, I didn't see an Evo with stock brakes. NONE !

I even saw ST power's track car with Brembo Monoblock racing 6 or 8 pots (can't remember). And most of their customer's car carry AP Racing 6/4 setups. I was quite shy of my s15 at that time because everywhere I looked I can see BBK everywhere in Singapore. Must be cheap for them. haha. Whereas in Malaysia, ppl are only starting to play BBK. I for one, am one of them after saving money. It's quite expensive for us, with our low ringgit.

And also, If I had 6pot front and 4 pot rear, maybe just maybe I could've have braked in time the other day to avoid a small mishap.

It is good that you like big brakes. At least it is better than not believing in one.....some guys I know do!

It is good to take reference from other pro built S15s' brake setup. But more important is to understand 'what' and 'why' certain things are done.
A good example is the brakes on the type R civics and integras have beefed up front (Brembo calipers) and stock rears....reason is b/c these are FF cars where demand for braking has higher front bias needs.
On the other side, the NSX, 911 tend to have equal size disc front and rear brakes due to more mass at rear...so more demanding rear brakes are required.

Also many track cars install brake bias control valve to adjust the front/back braking force.

To do a proper brake setup, one needs to consider pad size (to determine caliper selection) and disc size according to the static and dynamic loads of the vehicle with respect to the brakes.

A simple short cut can be easily done if you just want to improve braking effectiveness without changing the front/rear brake bias. You can stick to the front/rear brake bias setup done on the stock car with upgrading disc and pad size proportionally.

Ie. If front rotor grow by 50mm in diameter, do the same to the rear. And if you're going select front caliper, decide on the rear first as the front/rear pad size ration should not differ from the stock brake pads front/back ratio.

If you apply such methodology, you will soon realise why many Z32 2pot/300mm disc are used on rear to match either 330mm or 320mm disc with 4 or 6 pot calipers of different makes!

No, not all tricked up cars in Singapore have big brake kits, only that you saw the crowd that are willing to go that far to mod their cars.

I think the real lunys are the guys that install big brake kits on their papa and mama Honda Honda Odesseys in Singapore.

 

[mint]

I think the real lunys are the guys that install big brake kits on their papa and mama Honda Honda Odesseys in Singapore.

First off Odesseys are too hawt! Im going to buy one when i have wee ones defo!!!!!

And its interesting about the FWD Brake setup you mentioned, This thread has defo got me thinking about what id like to go for, Is the Skyline upgrade on the back a cheaper option im guessing than going for something like endless or brembo's?

Do you know the diff's between the 32/33 brake setup? Good thread :thumbs:

 

[kazama]

Cheers Sillbeer !


Mint,

If you're talking about the rear 2 pot brakes. These are the specs.

R32 GTS-t & R33 GTS-t

Rear Caliper Piston (diameter) - 38.18mm
Rear rotors (diameter x thickness) - 297mm x 18mm

R32 GTR V-spec / R33 GTR / R34 GTR with brembos

Master cylinder diameter - 26.9mm
Front Caliper Piston (diameter x quantity) - 44mm & 38mm x 2 (leading pistons smaller than trailing
Front Rotors (diameter) - 324mm x 30mm
Rear Caliper Piston (diameter) - 40mm
Rear rotors (diameter x thickness) - 300mm x 22mm


If you're looking to get rear 2 pot upgrades, it is best to get it from an ECR33 GTS-t because these brakes run drum brakes for the handbrake, thus by getting the R33 ones, the handbrake cables all bolt up replacing the original S15's one. So no fussing around and modification is needed. That is why if you look at the specs I posted above, ALL of the S15s uses ECR33 rear brakes instead of the HCR32's ones.

Skyline OEM Brembos (R33 GTR / R34 GTR) are definitely a cheaper option to get, plus if you get the R33 GTR ones, its all plug and play, where as for the R34 GTR ones, all you need to do is drill the mounting holes slightly bigger to bolt up to the S15. These are a good upgrade for S15s.

I read this before in an article. The main guy in charged of developing the R32/R33/R34 GTRs once said in an interview that the Brembo brakes on the R33/R34 GTRs couldn't be any bigger to save on the cost. Thus he strongly recommends changing them to bigger units straight away.

I have friends driving 34 GTRs and they even said that the standard brakes were not up to par for the vehicle's weight and power. But like I said earlier, in Malaysia, most people just upgrade the pads/rotors instead of changing the whole brake system all together.

So conclusion... 33/34 GTR brembos are crap for 33/34 GTRs but are a good upgrade for an S15.

 

[mint]

thanks mate that explains things better for me now ^_^ i know what to look out for when the time comes

 

[kazama]

Just to add that these are the recommend 'package' for Endless, Greddy and AP Racing for S15s

Endless

4 pot - 280mm x 30mm
4 pot inch up - 296mm x 32mm
Mini 6 pot - 280mm x 30mm
Mini 6 pot inch up 1 - 296mm x 32mm
Mini 6 pot inch up 2 - 324mm x 32mm
6 pot inch up - 324mm x 32mm

And if I remember correctly,

for AP Racing, the biggest standard option for S15s are 332mm.
Unless if you buy R33 GTR brakes ranging from 345mm-372mm that would plug and play.

Greddy, only 330mm for S15s.

Thus, aftermarket brands don't really encourage too big of discs for the S15. I read somewhere, other than Sillbeers info that this has something to do with balance with the rear brakes and the total weight of the car. I just can't recall the article in which I got that from. Dammit.

If you were to think about this properly, the Standard R33/34 GTR Brembos are perfect for an S15 because its affordable, still a Brembo with bigger piston diameter, and their std discs are 324mm !

 

[sillbeers15]

Mint,

Thanks. Looks like Kazama has all the answers you need.

Kazama,

Well done! Look like you've done all your home work on BBK.

During the period when I've installed my front AP Racing BBK and while waiting for my ordered Z32 rear caliper, disc, full drum brake assembly parts to arrive, my ride would dip while I braked and the brakes were really sensitive to the pedal.

 

[kazama]

Thanks sillbeer, I told you I love brakes. I really do. haha

if your ride would dip when you brake then what about the other Jap cars who use big 6 pots and stock rear s15 brakes. yikes.

Have you any knowledge about changing the master cylinder, pumps, etc ?
There's this guy on the skyline forum, who is very knowledgeable about race cars, engine rebuilding, etc
said that it is pointless putting aftermarket brakes without changing the master cylinder, etc.
Then they are others who say that these brakes were design to use back the standard cylinder.

 

[sillbeers15]

Kazama,

I understand where you are coming from. Now the function of the brake master cylinder is to supply pressure to clamp the brake pads against the rotating disc so as to relief effort from your right leg when you depress the brake pedal. One will need to change the size of the master cylinder as basic physical relationship of Pressure=Force/AREA remains unchanged.
So long as you do not feel that your brakes are over sensitive or woody, the brake master cylinder calls for no need to change.

As a matter of fact, I've renewed my brake master cylinder to a new set of stock S15 ones. I'm not too certain if improving the ridigity of the firewall by installing:

1. a Cusco brake stopper;

2. a Nismo Brake and Clutch pedal assembly (strengthened as compared to stock unit)

helps to lighten brake pedal pressure? But I feel fine with my brake pedal effect. I'm certain not too many folks bother to change item 2 in their S15.

 

[kennji]

hi, would like to add in some information for those who are looking into upgrading the rear brakes to the nissan 2-pot setup. basically, as kazama mentioned, the most simple step for the conversion is to obtain the ECR33 handbrake cable + drum assembly + caliper & disk. its a straight bolt-on if you have those parts in hand. alternatively, the z32 parts is also pretty popular in the states/europe probably because of easy access to the z32 parts.

basically, the ECR33 handbrake cable is a must because it has the most appropriate length to reach the drum assy. alternatively, there are aftermarket extension cables available if one uses the R32/C33 cables. in some cases. the R32 rear brake assembly is used. i once saw a video clip showing oka-chan of yashio factory explaining a combination of R32 cable/drum assy/caliper/N1 disc bolted to a s15 rear axle just by adding 2 washers padding under the caliper. but some don't like the washer style, so exchanging the s15 rear axle with a R32/R33 one is the way to go.

all in all, there are many combinations to go with depending on the availability of the parts. i believe that the drum assembly is interchangable for Z32, R32/R33/R34 non GTRs. as of this time, the new drum assy for R32/R33 is not available anymore from nissan japan. for calipers, Z32/R32/R33 will fit but probably not R34 though... (different bolt size?) but disc for R32/R33/R34 is supposed to be the same.

i would probably miss out something so do correct me if you like.

oh ya...the GTR brembo's price is rising every second as we speak. if you got it cheap then its a steal for you. else, its better to just lay your hands on the aftermarket ones.